Features Interviews

Interview with Cao Jinling: We Must Introspect and Rethink How to Re-balance Our Relationship With Nature

We speak with Cao Jinling about the human relationship with nature, animism, using resources of our planet smartly as well as filming in minus 40 degrees Celsius.

Cao Jinling studied at USC’s School of Cinematic Arts after receiving a doctorate in Dramatic Literature from China’s Central Academy of Drama. Before turning director, she wrote scripts, e.g. for “Meet Miss Anxiety” (2014), “Crying Out in Love” (2016) and “Seventy-Seven Days” (2017).

On the occasion of her debut movie, environmental drama “Anima”, we talk about the human relationship with nature, animism, using resources of our planet smartly as well as filming in minus 40 degrees Celsius.

You studied literature and scripted several movies. Now you turned into a director. What are the differences – or similarities – between being a storyteller as a writer and a director? 

I feel they are very similar in essence; they all express one’s connection to the world through stories. As a screenwriter, I use words like a sword. As a director, I have a more comprehensive set of tools: photography, sound, and acting performance, etc.

So let’s proceed to the film. More than a century ago, Fyodor Dostoyevsky wrote in “The Brothers Karamazov”: Man, do not pride yourself on your superiority to the animals, for they are without sin, while you, with all your greatness, you defile the earth wherever you appear and leave an ignoble trail behind you – and that is true, alas, for almost every one of us!. Now, a century and a half later, we can painfully experience this trail of destruction left by humankind, and this destruction is so essential in “Anima”. Do you consider environmental issues a burning matter of our times?

Yes, I do agree. We have not reflected upon Fyodor Dostoyevsky’s reminder a century ago, we have even worsened the environmental issue. Nowadays, the environment issue is the most urgent challenge of the survival of humanity. Last year was a warning for all of us. The Covid-19, the forest fire in Australia, the locust plague in Africa, and the global warming for many years, these disasters can be seen as the immunological reaction of our Earth. It reminds us that the human being is not dominant. We must introspect and rethink how to re-balance our relationship with nature.

Could you tell me about the filming location? I know it is Moerdaoga National Forest Park, the largest virgin forest in China. Why did you decide to shoot there?

“Moerdaoga” is where I was born and grown-up. In my childhood, we were surrounded by towering trees that took a few kids to circle hand in hand. After I graduated from college, it was all green there, but not centurial trees anymore. This is where the original idea of the film comes from and my motivation to carry it out. We do not take this conflict as the main point in the film, just as a situation. Actually, the Chinese government banned logging in the virgin forest since 1998 and started planting. A massive green area was discovered by NASA in 2019 as large as the Amazon Rain Forest and this large-scale afforestation project is done by the authorities. In a word, the film focuses on an individual experience rather than on social issues. The film tells the life story of a lumberjack and his discovery and relationship with nature. It is more meaningful to everyone, in my perspective.

Indeed, it is. In “Anima,” the connection between humans and nature seems sacred. It is an inseparable bond, the system of interconnections, the flow of energy. The characters live according to seasons, they perceive nature as a gift, they have to treat it wisely and with respect. They also believe in spirits preoccupying the forest. How do you perceive this bond and is sustaining it possible in a modern Anthropocene world?

The eldest religion in China is Shamanism or Animism. It is the origin of the film’s English title (Anima). In ancient times, people were living in harmony in nature, with nature, and by nature. Ancient literature supports this view: Hope spring comes soon, flowers and trees are luxuriant when it comes, birds sing happily, plenty corps is growing (XiaoYa·Chuche, “The Book of Songs” mentions), Bright spring diffuses virtue, adding fresh lustre to all living things. “A Song in Slow Time”, Han Dynasty). These extracts describe the childhood of humanity, simple but full of happiness. However, our modern civilization has forgotten animism and what it stands for. We have become greedy and materialistic. We have been plundering all things in nature to fill an abyss of desire. We have tried with this film to awaken our awareness, respect, love, and fear towards nature.

I think it does a great job in awakening our awareness. The movie is set in the 80s and shows the perils of economic growth on different levels. One – is progress and development, which causes damage to the natural environment. Second – the way it interferes with tradition and changes traditional ways of life. How do you perceive this economic impact?

The movie is set across the 60s to 90s, with the most part in the 80s and the 90s. The dangers of economic development on the environment is a global issue. Economic growth brings great wealth to people, improves the means of production and living standards. It defines our modern civilization. Driven by economic interest, people manipulate natural resources rapidly and lavishly, causing deterioration of the environment. More and more people are currently paying attention to this issue, and a “low-carbon economy” is advocated. It’s better late than never. Hopefully, we are still in time to save the earth.

“Amima” includes Ewenki characters. How did you research their customs – the traditional songs in a movie are stunning.

In China, the Ewenki have three branches. In the film, there are the “Shilu” (meaning they are breeding reindeer for life) Ewenki tribe – they are rare, with only 209 left nationwide. They live in the virgin forest in “immortal poles” (a kind of round tent shown in the film). My family and I lived there; I knew them when I was a kid. Before we started shooting, we interviewed the one and only matriarch Maria Sop, 99 years old. Her daughter, De Kesha was our consultant for Ewenki culture and customs. The film uses Ewenki folk music, Mongol hoomii and an instrument called morin khuur. Moerdaoga is located in inner Mongolia and is made of a multi-ethnic population. We combined traditional music with contemporary music. I am grateful to our music composers Lim Giong (Taiwan senior music producer) , Te Kexi (folk music producer), and Bai Gala (experienced hoomii performer).

There are interesting portrayals of men and women in your movie, not fitting the traditional patriarchal order. The men seem weak, immature, indecisive, and driven by instincts. The female protagonist is strong and brave and seems more a folk tale-like female warrior. She hunts, she takes her man, and she can protect herself.

This is related to the Shilu Ewenki culture. It is a particular tribe; they had a matriarchal clan society and directly walked into modern civil society. So they follow matriarch, so-called “Queen in the forest”, they have female leadership, women are taking responsibility, in business and life. This is the background of the film. Furthermore, I did not design the male protagonist as a hero, but rather like Hamlet-kind protagonist. Hamlet keeps postponing his revenge, always questioning himself. Just like „Anima”, care and introspection are far more important than conflict or action.

The female protagonist also impersonates contrasting archetypes – she is a fearless huntress, as well as a caring mother. Do you think we, as women, face conflicting social expectations?

You can see the female protagonist’s evolution, not only from being a mother but also from the invasion of modern civilization. She changed her living habit and values. To have a practical and stable life, she transformed from a freely independent romantic to a realist. She determined to move into a city, regardless of knowing what life could be. We all face the same options in life. Through this film, I expect the audience to rethink; however, I don’t have a standard answer.

I was very impressed by the visual side and the lighting. What were the filming conditions? It must have been tough in a non-industrialized area…

The filming conditions were harsh. Most of the shooting was done in winter under minus 40 degrees Celsius. The transportation was very inconvenient with the snow. All crews lived in tents in the forest, with no electricity, no mobile network, no internet, just like the aboriginal life of the Ewenki. We shot about 40 days in the winter, and another 40 days in the summer and autumn. It took 2 years to finish shooting; the temperature difference from summertime to wintertime reached 80 degrees. I am truly grateful for the contribution of all the crew, actors, actresses and everyone with us on-site.

That sounds really impressive! A lot of dedication, I see… Time for my last question. In recent years we hear more and more about the rise of Chinese female filmmakers, who are breaking ground in a man’s world. From your point of view, do female directors bring a unique perspective?

I do not consider myself any special actually. While creating the story and shooting the film, I did not notice any specific strength, weakness, or impact linked to my gender. However, I do see more and more films by female directors and feel part of this trend. I feel the responsibility to strengthen our voice and bring more energy to the global society and Chinese culture.

Chinese-English translation was provided by Oscar Chi and Clement Magar.

Check the “Anima” review below:

About the author

Joanna Kończak

I graduated in the field of cross-cultural psychology, what made me curious of the worlds far outside my backyard. Hence you may meet me roaming the Asian and European sideways as I love travelling, especially solo. Have been watching movies since I remember, and I share the same enthusiasm for experimental arthouse as well as glittering blockbusters and the filthiest of horrors. Indian cinema became the area of my particular interest. Apart from being a frantic cinephile, I devour piles of books. As I have been working in the publishing house known for children’s books (and even authored a couple of toms) for over a decade, I became quite successful in hiding the dreadful truth: never managed to grow up.

Subscribe to Our Newsletter

>