Mahdi Fleifel is a Danish-Palestinian film director who graduated in 2009 from the UK National Film & TV School. In 2010 he set up the London-based production company Nakba FilmWorks with Irish producer Patrick Campbell. His debut feature documentary, A World Not Ours (2012), premiered at the Toronto International Film Festival and picked up over 30 awards, including the Peace Film Prize and the Panorama Audience Award at the 2013 Berlinale and the Edinburgh, Yamagata and DOC:NYC Grand Jury Prizes. Mahdi’s 2016 short film, A Man Returned, won the Silver Bear and the European Film Nomination at the Berlinale and his latest film, A Drowning Man, formed part of the Official Selection at the Cannes Film Festival 2017 and was nominated for a BAFTA award. His fiction feature film debut, a co-production of UK, France, Germany, the Netherlands, Greece (Homemade Films), Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Palestine, “To A Land Unknown” had its world premiere at the 2024 Quinzaine des Cinéastes in Cannes to rave reviews and is currently screening in festivals and theatres around the world.
On the occasion of the film screening at Thessaloniki International Film Festival, we speak with him about shooting a film in Greece, the lives of immigrants in Greece, the casting of the film and working with Angeliki Papoulia, cinematography and editing and his future projects.
Let me start with the inevitable question, how is it shooting movies in Greece?
For me, it feels like home. I’ve been filming in Greece since I started in 2011, when I arrived. I was filming on my phone and my stills camera, and I made my first short film “Xenos”, and then I came back to shoot a short fiction film. And so for me, it was like an extension of filming in Lebanon. There was no difference. And regarding making my fiction feature here, and although I have no comparison, the people I worked with were the coolest, top professionals. The DP, Thodoris Mihopoulos, the producer, Maria Drandaki who facilitated everything, all of them made a fantastic team.
I made one short film back in the day in Denmark, but I feel like the Danish Film Institute doesn’t even want to support my work. I’m more of a Greek filmmaker.
Not a Palestinian filmmaker?
It is difficult, because if you ask the Palestinians, they will tell you I didn’t make the right Palestinian film, whatever that is. Maybe it is more about Palestinians living under occupation, struggling with checkpoints and oppression, but my story is about exiles. If I wanted to be really honest, I’m not even a Greek filmmaker. I’m not Palestinian, I’m not Danish, not European, not British. I’m an exiled filmmaker making films about exiles. That’s essentially the more correct answer.
What’s the inspiration behind the story of the film?
The inspiration comes from the many documentaries I did. I followed several guys over 10 years, some of whom I documented in my documentaries, and so all the characters in the movie, like Reda and Chatila are basically based on these characters. Also from literature, from George and Lennie from “Of Mice and Men” for example.
Did you know that the main character’s name in Greek slang refers to someone who is always angry?
Really, I did not know that. Actually I named him after I heard a real guy was named Chatila, and I thought it was so fascinating that someone could be named after that refugee camp in Lebanon, where the 1982 massacre took place.
Check the review of the film
And since we are talking about the characters, tell me how the casting worked for the movie?
I worked with a casting director in Greece, in Palestine and in Germany and we were looking everywhere, in France, in Germany, in Denmark, in Greece, in Lebanon, in Palestine, in Jordan. The casting process took about two and a half years, because it was the one thing I didn’t want to compromise on. I wanted to make sure that the film was really well cast, and that I have found this authenticity and the right personalities. I’m always casting personalities that fit the characters. I’m not so interested in the actors or if they’re trained or not trained. We ran several workshops, casting workshops, and through those workshops, I would discover some interesting candidates, and then I would select them.
And about the kid that plays Malik?
Our Greek casting director found him. It was actually a coincidence, because he came with his older brother, who was the one to be casted. His older brother had done films before, and when he came in, I looked at him. He had already become tall, and he was 14 years old, and he had a fine haircut and was wearing a watch. He had grown up. But then I looked at the younger boy that was with him, I asked him who he was and he told me that he was his younger brother. So, we auditioned the little brother, and he proved to be the one we were looking for. He was really good, so we were lucky.
And Angeliki Papoulia, who plays Tatiana?
I always wanted to work with her. I wanted someone interesting, because I knew that her character in the film would disappear, so I wanted someone to reverberate throughout. And of course, I’m a huge fan, and my Greek producer had worked with her on a number of films before, and so I asked if she would be interested. She said she was, so we met and we hit it off. It was a great privilege working with her.
How’s the situation with immigrants now in Athens, especially for the ones in the film, who have not settled in the country.
When I arrived 13 years ago, it was chaotic. Nobody knew anything, it wasn’t regulated. Now it’s more contained, more regulated. They now have the possibility to actually seek asylum and apply for a residence permit and become part of society, to work, whereas before it was more trying to avoid the police for example. However, I have to say I am not an expert on that front, I don’t really know the system.
Are drugs a common issue among them, as you show in the movie?
Yes, from what I experience and from what I understand, because it’s a coping mechanism. A Palestinian sociologist has termed the term Three Logical Exits. I have actually shot a short film with the same title. It refers to the exits young men who live in camps have. One is to join a political faction, second to use and/or sell drugs and the third to become illegal immigrants. Drugs is an issue among young men, not for everybody but definitely for some.
One of the most interesting things in the film is how you present your characters. They are not oppressed saints, they do some bad things, and some worse things as time passes. Can you tell me a bit about this approach? Is that the reason the Palestinians did not like your movie?
Yes. One guy, the other day after the screening, came out and told me I should consider showing Palestinians in a better light. I asked him what light he wanted. I am just trying to be honest, it is not that I make a deliberate choice to air my dirty underwear in front of everyone in public. These are the circumstances, and I wanted to be honest to their experience. I also wanted to ask myself what I would do in their stead. Yes, we can all agree that stealing and manipulating and prostituting yourself are bad things, but the question why people do these things remains. That was the question I was interested in.
Do you like Chatila though, would you be friends with him if you met him in real life?
Yes, I think he has many good qualities. I don’t think he does anything because he’s inherently bad. I don’t believe that for one second. And actually, the guy who the real Chatila is based on is now living in London, and I met him at the London premiere. I invited him. He’s married. He’s a civil engineer. He lives in South London and is a perfectly lovable person. So the short answer to your question is yes.
Can you tell me about the cinematography, what you wanted to do in the visual aspect in the movie?
I worked with Thodoris Mihopoulos, nicknamed “The Sheriff” on our set. He was brilliant. We hit it off immediately. I think chemistry-wise, we vibe very well. He’s a DOP that comes in full of ideas, which is always a joy for a director to work with, because, you know, you don’t always have all the answers. We talked about several things. One thing I wanted was to design the film. I didn’t want to just cover it, I didn’t want to do handheld covering. I wanted to actually design the film. I wanted to pay homage to a certain cinema that I love and miss, 70s Hollywood cinema. I wanted to embrace the thriller genre. I wanted to shoot Athens in a way that hadn’t been seen in films before, the Athens that I know through the eyes of my friends. So a lot of these things went into our discussions, and I do want the cinematic experience, like I said. I didn’t want to do a social realist film.
And about the editing, which I feel is the main source of tension in the film, along with the acting?
The editing was really done simultaneously as we were shooting. So the editor who ended up cutting the whole film was initially hired to assemble the film while we were shooting. So by the time we finished, after six weeks, he had assembled it and we had two and a half hours of footage. Then I went with another editor, but after five weeks, I realized it was not gonna work, so I went back to the assembly editor, Halim Sabbagh from Beirut. He’s Lebanese, so with him already knowing the language, already being familiar with the material and having edited it before, he was obviously the right person for the job. It was done extremely fast, not counting the six weeks he was working while we were shooting, he cut it in five weeks.
About future projects, what are you working on next? Will you be shooting in Greece again?
I would love to shoot another film in Greece. That’s the short answer. I had a fantastic time filming here. Regarding future projects, there are a couple of things in development now, four or five, one of which is a documentary, one is a book. We will see which one moves forward. You know, in this business, you have to have several things ‘on the fire’ and wait and see.
